Struggling with unexplained symptoms or persistent health challenges? This episode could change everything. Dive into the transformative world of German New Medicine with us, and discover how symptoms are actually profound messages, not enemies. Dr. Melissa Sell guides us on a journey to decode our body’s language and find true healing. Open your mind and join us as we explore a revolutionary approach to health and wellbeing on the We Are Already Free podcast. Remember, we’re not just overcoming ailments; we’re tuning into life’s deeper harmony.

In this episode you will learn how to:

  1. Understand German New Medicine for holistic health transformation
  2. Interpret body signals for natural healing and wellness
  3. Overcome the invisible triggers of health shocks with Germanic Healing Knowledge
  4. View cancer through the lens of biological adaptation for healing
  5. Explore the five biological laws for a deep mind-body connection
  6. Adopt new perspectives on diet for optimal health beyond conventional wisdom
  7. Resolve chronic conflicts to achieve long-term health and wellbeing
  8. See the influence of consciousness on health and personal experiences
  9. Debunk modern parenting myths to meet our true biological needs
  10. Recognise our freedom beyond the illusion of victimhood for empowered living

Links to Dr. Melissa Sell:

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With love, Nathan


[00:00:00] Nathan Maingard: Are you as tired as I am of struggling with mysterious symptoms, inexplicable illnesses, acne, auto- immune challenges, gut issues, or any of the modern ailments, which plague so many of us and are considered normal? And often incurable. If, so this episode is going to blow your mind. Like it did mine.

[00:00:25] Imagine for a moment that nagging pain, not just in your body, but deep within your psyche. The whispering discomfort that something's not quite right. Like me, you've probably tried all the diets, followed the health gurus, done all the things, yet that ache, that sense of dis-ease persists. How many times have you been told to battle the symptoms, to wage war against your own flesh and blood, hoping for relief and a peace that never fully arrives? Too many of us have been there trusting modern medicine yet finding ourselves running in [00:01:00] circles, seeking health in places it just isn't found.

[00:01:03] Welcome back to we are already free. The podcast where we break free from the normal box and embrace our true selves. I'm Nathan Maingard guiding you through stories of awakening, healing, and authenticity. Each episode, we dive into the challenges and triumphs of living a life true to ourselves. From navigating healing and sexuality, to finding joy and self-acceptance beyond societal limitations. Here we explore personal growth, down to earth spirituality and the courage to be your proudly weird self. Join us as we journey towards liberation and true authenticity. And please remember we are already free.

[00:01:44] Today's episode opens a new door. We explore the groundbreaking world of German new medicine, more recently called Germanic healing knowledge, a perspective that sees symptoms, not as enemies, but as profound messages guiding us towards true [00:02:00] healing. It's a journey into understanding how our bodies communicate. A map that reveals the deeper connections between our physical symptoms and our life experiences.

[00:02:10] Get ready for a transformative and challenging dialogue with Dr.

[00:02:14] Melissa sell, chiropractor and self-awareness coach. She helps people to understand their symptoms from the Germanic healing knowledge perspective, guides them in learning to trust their bodies and teaches teaches shifts for creating a deep sense of peace and wellbeing. we uncover the secrets of our biology and learn to listen, really listen to what our bodies are telling us. Let's embark on this journey together and discover how embracing this new understanding can lead us to a life of deeper health and harmony. Even if you're skeptical or new to alternative health concepts, I invite you to open your mind to the possibilities we'll explore in this conversation with Dr. Melissa Sell.

[00:02:54] In this episode, we cover German new medicine and revolutionizing our understanding of health. Decoding the body's [00:03:00] messages. The profound impact of shock on health. Re-imagining cancer as a biological adaptation, not an enemy. The deeper connection between mind and body. Y your diet, isn't the sole key to health.

[00:03:13] And honestly, as always, so much more. One of my favorite things we talk about is this illusion of victimhood.

[00:03:19] Before we get started with this episode, I'm curious to know if you ever wake up feeling mysterious aches, fatigue, like overall, not really in tune with your body's messages. Do you wish that you could learn to truly listen to what it's trying to tell you? I invite you to break free to break out of that routine of starting your mornings on achy autopilot, reaching for your phone or coffee, just to get enough energy to stumble into your life for another distracted day. Please join my five day morning practice challenge.

[00:03:49] It's free and it's designed to align your mornings with conscious living and deeper health. Step into a life of deepening awareness and self love in just a few minutes each day. [00:04:00] Align your mornings now at And take the first step towards a life that listens and responds to your body's wisdom. And now please enjoy this episode of the, we are already free podcast with the inimitable Dr. Melissa Sell.

[00:04:16] I'm just so grateful, Melissa. I've seen you a while now on Instagram, and I've always found your sharing to be intriguing, interesting, and often challenging. And so I kind of want to open this conversation up with, Just getting a bit of clarity from you around.

[00:04:32] I know it's been called German new medicine and that the name has shifted to German healing knowledge. And I'd love to hear your definition or your understanding at this point of, of what that is, what that modality is.

[00:04:45] Melissa Sell: So yeah, German New Medicine is what Dr. Homer called his discovery. Originally, he called it New Medicine. But there were a lot of different groups that were using the label new medicine and so he put the German in front of it to be very [00:05:00] specific about his discoveries of the five biological laws and Then you know it stopped being new so the term Germanische Heilkunde Which is like the German phrase that he has Chosen to be the label for his discovery which roughly translates in English to Germanic healing knowledge was put out in his breast The book is called Breast Krebs.

[00:05:24] It's a It's all it's in German obviously and it's a book about the breast adaptation biological programs. And so there's a section in there where he describes the Germanisha Heilkunde being the best description for his work. And so Germanic is Not like Germany, the country. It's like, it is to represent the Germanic people.

[00:05:44] So the ancient Germanic peoples who lived in harmony with nature. If you read from Tacitus he was a Roman who wrote about the Germanic peoples and, in there he describes kind of how they lived. They didn't live, they weren't interested in city life. They lived [00:06:00] alongside rivers in flow with nature.

[00:06:03] They, they didn't want to exchange money. Like the Romans came in and were like, here, give us, we'll give you gold and you give us this. And they're like, no, we don't want to exchange money. We don't want to, there was, loaning money for interest was just, it was like something no one did.

[00:06:18] It was just not something that was a cultural thing among these people. They lived in harmony with nature. They, they got everything they needed from nature. They didn't build big cities. They were just very harmonious. people who had an innate understanding of how life functioned. And so their culture was just structured in such a way that was very much in flow with our biology.

[00:06:41] So the bio-logic of nature, and so that's what the word Germanic harkens to. And then Heil Kunda is, Heil means bright, it means holy, and Kunda is knowledge. So it's this bright, holy knowledge, Germanic being this It's culture of kinship, brotherhood, sisterhood. There is no hierarchy of like,[00:07:00] in allopathic medicine we have the holy, we have the doctors and they're the ones who have the secret language and they are the ones that, pronounce the diagnosis upon the small little people.

[00:07:09] In the Garmanisha Hayal Kunda, it's everyone knows and shares in this knowledge together. It's a harmonious thing. Everyone understands. stands. We learn from one another. And so that hierarchy is gone. It's based in this harmonious, like what makes sense in nature. And that's really, the bigger picture of, the map of the five biological laws.

[00:07:31] Yes. It's understanding like where a sinus Stuffed up nose comes from or where a cough comes from or diarrhea comes from it's understanding the biological adaptations. But in a bigger picture is understanding what makes sense for biology? What makes sense for humanity to continue living? There's a structure for how men, women, children, the family, how it best survives and continues to reproduce so that we continue to have [00:08:00] life and life just wants to experience itself again and again and come together and remix and come together and remix again and you know there are certain biological natural laws that we have to abide by and if we don't humanity fails and that means people die and we aren't able to keep playing this game.

[00:08:19] Nathan Maingard: you make me think of the infinite game where we're in our society, we play the finite game, which is win lose, which is all about winning and getting past the other guy. And I don't know, whereas the game of nature, the game of life is the infinite game where the point of the game is to keep playing, which I think is so beautiful.

[00:08:36] Melissa Sell: Exactly, I love that. And that is, that is how I see it, is that, what current modern medicine, so the old medicine, and it's funny to call this even the new medicine, when it's actually the ancient, the oldest of old and then we have this modern medicine that has come in, and everything that it does is inverted.

[00:08:55] So it's like the inverter system. So we take everything of natural law and we twist it [00:09:00] and we corrupt it and through that corruption, we destroy this natural balance and we make it so that it's pretty difficult to keep playing the game. You look at fertility rates, you look at, just the number of people who don't feel good in their body, feel disembodied, feel disconnected from their physical body.

[00:09:17] We see that with this whole transgender movement. It's terrifying what they've done. As a culture, what medicine does is traumatize, the, the whole system. And it's under the guise of this is best for your health, but it's extremely traumatic. And those traumatic shocks change the brain, cause the body to adapt in certain ways, which makes you more reliant on the system, more reliant on their pharmaceuticals and their interventions.

[00:09:42] But it doesn't lead you any closer to health because it's further and further from the natural way.

[00:09:48] Nathan Maingard: Well, if I'd love to, there's so many things in there that I want to dive and explore, but I'll start with just a little more clarification. The five biological laws, would you share that for us?

[00:10:00] [00:10:00]

[00:10:00] Melissa Sell: Certainly. So this is, so Dr. Homer in 1978, and this is actually pretty fascinating that there is a new documentary that just came out on Netflix called The King Who Never Was, and it tells the story of Dr. Homer's son, and how he was tragically shot. He was on a boat trip in Cavallo and the Italian crown prince shot a gun.

[00:10:25] It went through the side of a boat where his son was sleeping and he got shot in the femoral artery. And so there was this whole huge, crazy case surrounding, the prince originally signed his name to the paper that said, Yeah, I shot the gun. And then later says, No, I didn't shoot the gun. And, ends up getting away with it and doesn't get You know, put in prison for it, which is what the documentary really kind of follows the specifics of that story, which is fascinating.

[00:10:52] I mean, I just watched it this weekend because it just recently came out. So, you know that can give you a little bit of background on the drama that led to [00:11:00] the shock, which was Dr. Homer. Losing his, his son, he, was going through all of these dozens of surgeries. He had to have his leg amputated and it was this young, beautiful 17 year old, handsome, athletic young man, Dr.

[00:11:13] Homer's son, who was shot in this tragic, really dramatic way and ended up dying. And in the wake of that, Dr. Homer developed testicular cancer. And so he, had this deep knowing that the tragic shooting of his son and this testicular cancer were connected. And then he had a series of dreams where he started to put these connections together, that there was, a link between the loss of his son and the testicular cancer.

[00:11:39] And then he started studying cancer patients and he started to recognize a pattern that cancer is not something that's going wrong in the body, but in fact, it is a deliberate biological adaptation in response to a shocking event. And when he saw, okay, so every man that he [00:12:00] spoke with who had testicular cancer, he asked them, did you have a loss?

[00:12:04] And everyone was like, yes, I had a tragic loss. I lost, a child. I lost a partner. I lost someone important in my life. Every woman who had a glandular breast cancer had a very profound worry. experience. Everyone who had lung cancer had a death fright shock. And so he started to see, Oh, this isn't random why cancer develops in one organ and not the other.

[00:12:28] It's actually biologically meaningful. And when you think about it, it's like, okay, if, if a, an organism loses its offspring, what makes sense in the biology of that organism to do? Lost offspring, that's the shock. What can the body do to help replace what was lost? Well, let's enhance the reproductive organ, the testicle. In the woman, the correlation for a loss is the ovary.

[00:12:51] So what we are calling cancer is in fact, a deliberate enhancement, adaptation that the body goes through after a [00:13:00] shocking conflict. has occurred. And so that was like the big Dr. Homer is having these dreams. His son's like, yes, you're, you're, this is you're on the right path, but there are more things to discover.

[00:13:10] And so he continued to discover and ended up writing out this whole map of every organ. Every tissue in the body has a meaningful purpose and has the ability to go into kind of a hyper mode. Has the ability to go into an enhanced adaptation in order to facilitate the survival of the organism. And so that's what the five biological laws describe.

[00:13:33] The first biological law is the iron rule of cancer. So this is the connection between the psyche, the brain, and the organs. So the psyche is your, it's not just your conscious mind, it's your whole beingness, it's your, subconscious, it is the signal detection apparatus that's sensing everything about your environment.

[00:13:51] And as soon as it notices a shock, something that could be a threat, before you even have a conscious thought about what happened, [00:14:00] your body has already activated a specific biological program in order to help you to survive that situation. So whether it is a loss, or a death fright, or a self devaluation, or a separation conflict, or a territorial issue, The body read the system, the psyche registers specifically, what organ system can we adapt in this moment to better survive this conflicting situation?

[00:14:27] And so, so Dr. Hammer, again, he saw that, okay, so on the testicle, we have cancer in the psyche, we have a loss. He also looked in the brain. And so he started to look at cT brain scans and saw that there were these ring formations in very specific locations. And so every man who had testicular cancer, he looked at the CT scan and there was always a ring in this, in a specific region in the brain again and again and again.

[00:14:53] And that's one of the things about Dr. Homer's map is that he wouldn't write it down if it wasn't consistent. So that means that you could see it [00:15:00] every single time. If there's an exception to it, it's not a natural law. It's, sometimes this happens. And that's really how everything in, modern medicine is it's statistics.

[00:15:10] 70% of the time this is correlated with that. 60% of the time, people who eat this food, develop this cancer. So you can't say it is a law that this food causes cancer or this toxin causes cancer because if it caused cancer, it would have to happen consistently across the board 100% of the time, if it was a causative, cause and effect rather than a correlation.

[00:15:31] But in his system, he found that always, these points were always present. Psyche, brain, organ. There was a shock of a particular nature, there's a circle in a particular area of the brain, and then there is an adaptation on the organ level where the tissues adapt. They change in one of three ways. They can either grow additional tissue, which is what this yellow group and their, this orange is split into old orange and new orange.

[00:15:57] The old orange behaves like the yellow. And so [00:16:00] there is growth of additional tissue during the active conflict in order to, once again, facilitate survival. Put yourself in that position of being in a death fright shock, like if there is a wild animal coming after you, in that moment, all of every part of you is on board with survival.

[00:16:19] And so your body, if it says, okay, this is a death fright, we are, are about to die. The difference between life and death could be having a little bit more oxygen in your bloodstream to get to your muscles so that you're able to get out of this situation. And so your lung alveoli has the capacity to enhance itself, to become thicker, to become greater, so it can absorb more oxygen, put it in your blood, get it to the muscles so you can get up a tree and away from this danger.

[00:16:48] And so isn't that amazing? Of course the body, it does what it can. It can't you know, all it can do is adapt its tissues. And that's what it does in order to facilitate survival. So there's growth of tissue during the conflict. And then once the [00:17:00] conflict is resolved, there's decomposition. And so this, I'm actually beginning to describe the second, third and fourth biological law.

[00:17:07] The second biological law is the law of two phases, which describes what happens after the shock occurs is we shift into fight or flight. Everybody is familiar with the fight or flight system, but this is you can think of it as like a specialized fight or flight. So we have a shock that initiates this adaptation phase. Depending on what was the nature of that conflict We either have this tissue enhancement For the old orange and the red group.

[00:17:33] There's actually tissue loss So think, for example, if you have a duct, like the bile duct, the duct is normally, this big. It has the ability to become this big in order for more bile to get into the digestive system, again, to better facilitate the breakdown of nutrients so that we can better have more energy to resolve this territorial anger conflict, for example.

[00:17:55] And so you can see each and every organ has a very specialized function and it [00:18:00] has the ability to go into a hyper mode, an enhanced mode. For a short period of time, because in nature, we're only going to be in a fight or flight situation for a few minutes. Other, the other animal is going to win and we're done or we get away and then we're, oh, what a relief that, that animal goes off and tries to find another, someone else to get.

[00:18:21] But in our modern context we have this capacity to have conflicts again and again and again We're around someone who's conflicting for us They cause that first shock and so there they become a track for us and this is actually what an allergy is. You know in this system, you understand an allergy to be something that was present in your environment when a shock occurred. And then every time that thing is present again, whether it's a person or a food or an environmental signal like mold. You get around it, you immediately reactivate those, your, your biological adaptation.

[00:18:53] And so we see it's not, it's not the substance, it's the conflict. Because a lot of people, eat foods or around [00:19:00] different substances that are an allergy for someone else. But that's because some people had a conflict with that substance in their environment and other people didn't. And so that kind of gets into just understanding that when a person has a symptom, they have to look at what is the tissue type, are we looking at yellow, old orange, new orange, or red, and that's going to tell you what adaptation you went through, what type of symptoms to expect, and then your work as a conscious being is to bring your awareness to, okay, how am I still reactivating this, because this, it's kind of no big deal for things that are a one time course, you have a shock, right?

[00:19:35] You go through, you have a cough, you're, have night sweats for a couple of nights, and then it's done. But when a person is like in a chronic conflict, where they are like chronic pain, chronic sinus issues, chronic digestive issues, it's because they are chronically encountering something that's reminding their biology of the shock.

[00:19:53] And so any, any questions there, any thing you want to interject with?

[00:19:58] Nathan Maingard: Well, I'm just, uh, I [00:20:00] don't want to slow you down there. There's some beautiful and interesting insights there. I mean, it challenges the foundations of, of healing in many ways as, as I currently know it. And as I know many, much of the world knows healing of even I would think of immediately, I think of something like, uh, some kind of holistic medicines, homeopathy, for example, or, um, I don't know.

[00:20:24] There's so many things that come up around that. Do you, have you ever found a situation where, where it hasn't worked, like where. I know you say it should do all the time, but I'm just wondering, like, is there a person where you would say, Hmm, you should, maybe you should go for homeopathy or maybe, uh, something else is better for you.

[00:20:43] Or does it really work like a hundred percent of the time, if you can get to that root of that shock and someone can, can come into a different relationship that that will actually shift the symptoms.

[00:20:53] Melissa Sell: The thing is, is with understanding the map of GHK, this, it's always like this. It's, it's a law, it's just [00:21:00] a law of nature. And I've seen it enough times in myself and enough times in literally every person I've ever spoken to since I learned this model, there's. The conflict is always there. The shock is always there.

[00:21:10] The adaptation always makes perfect sense when you look at the specifics of the individual's experience. Now, is that individual capable of recognizing and resolving and either changing the practical? Because the ideal resolution is a practical resolution. Get out of that situation. Leave that job, get a new partner, have another baby, get a new dog.

[00:21:34] Something very practical where you don't have to bend your mind into shifting your perception of something. That's like the more difficult way to do it. We always are looking for the most practical, straightforward, because that's what the biology again, this isn't a psychological conflict.

[00:21:51] It is a biological conflict. This is something is impeding my ability to survive and reproduce ultimately. And so that's why we want to take [00:22:00] that practical approach first.

[00:22:02] Nathan Maingard: So if you were to say a solution for let me, let's think of a real life example. So, okay. In my case, I mean, this might not apply, but, uh, so I've got a wart on my right shin and I've had it for. I don't know, at this point, most of my life, like at least my adult life, and it gets smaller. Sometimes it gets bigger sometimes, and I don't really know what's going on there.

[00:22:25] Now with something like that, what would a process that you would take someone like me through? What would that process look like? Oh, is it different all the time or yeah, how would we move this one forward?

[00:22:36] Melissa Sell: Are you right or left handed?

[00:22:38] Nathan Maingard: I'm left handed.

[00:22:39] Melissa Sell: Okay, so you're, if you're left dominant, your right side, so your left side, your dominant side is your partner side, and your non dominant side is your mother child side.

[00:22:51] Nathan Maingard: Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait That's before we go on that's completely like flipped my entire perspective on reality because I always thought right side [00:23:00] was The male side and left side was the female side in terms of like energetics. Is so it's got to do with dominant hands or dominant?

[00:23:08] Melissa Sell: so this has to do with your first cell, your first cell division. So yeah, I mean a lot of Other models of right brain, left brain, masculine, feminine, Dr. Homer, again, he studied the, the biological. So from the spiritual psychological, we can form all sorts of different models, but again, his system was based on biology.

[00:23:27] Right handed people are wired differently than left handed people, and this is a survival thing as well. When you understand kind of the details of how this works, it's very. biologically advantageous to have, uh, organisms that are wired differently in case certain conflicts happen to you know, a herd of animals, for example, it would make it so certain ones can't reproduce, but the left handed would allow, the left handers would be able to reproduce.

[00:23:50] So it's kind of complex, but it's very interesting. So your first cell division determined your handedness. And we know this from identical twins, so when they're, they come [00:24:00] from one one cell and they have one is right handed, one is left handed. And so this is the, that division determined your handedness.

[00:24:07] And so if you're a left handed male your right side is your mother child side. And so the, okay, what is a wart? A wart, we look at the tissue type. That's the outer skin. So it is the, the outer skin is the red group. And during the active conflict, there's loss of tissue. And so we're looking at some type of separation conflict with your mother or your child.

[00:24:31] And so this is either wanting to be separated, so wanting to push that person away, or wanting to bring them close. And so there's loss of tissue during the active conflict. And then when you either establish contact again, you bring them close and that conflict is resolved, or you successfully push them away and that conflict is resolved.

[00:24:50] The tissue rebuilds. Now, if you, if there's a wart, that means that you are running on a track. So basically the scabs getting ripped off. So we're eroding tissue and [00:25:00] building tissue, eroding tissue and building tissue up and down and up and down. And that's what a wart is. A wart is simply a chronic separation conflict with your mother or your child that has been unresolved.

[00:25:10] And so, you said that it changes, so what we would do is we would pay attention to when it changes, if it gets itchy. All of these things can give you clues about what's the nature, the source of this adaptation.

[00:25:23] Nathan Maingard: Okay. Well, you are officially blowing my mind right now because this is so apt for my situation with my mother, which probably doesn't surprise you, but it's just amazing how it, it makes sense because as, as I've said, like my whole life, or at least since I was learning about these kinds of things, it was always right side, dad, left side, mom.

[00:25:41] So I've been always trying to put together, like, why do I have chronic pain in my right? Uh, neck shoulder. Why is that always been so tight? It's like, I've done such good work with my dad and we so deep in some ways and with my mom as well, but like, I haven't been in touch with my mom now for some months because there's been something happened and this is the pattern that plays out is [00:26:00] where, and I love my mom to bits.

[00:26:01] If she ever hears this mom, I love you. Like, and what I experienced is that something happens or I do something and then she just vanishes like emotionally and practically. And when I'm reaching out, it's like, things have gone weird and it just goes very quiet. And, uh, she'll sometimes even say things like, well, it's what happened, it's what, it's what went down.

[00:26:20] It's what you said. Or I'm like, I don't understand what any of that means. I, I thought we were good. And, and so it's interesting that. I feel like this wart, I have noticed, has been bigger than it had been in quite a while because actually for quite a few years, my mom and I had reached a very deep place of connection and stability in our interaction.

[00:26:39] So, I mean, that, that alone is like, wow. Okay. I mean, it's in a way it's, it's like reassuring that there's actually a map that I could follow to, to discern instead of these like mystery things going on with my body. There's like, oh no, there's actually a map. Yeah. Interesting.

[00:26:56] Melissa Sell: Totally. And so the shoulder, neck situation, the [00:27:00] theme there. So if we're looking at the connective tissue, so every tissue type has a different theme. So the outer skin, again, that separation, the muscles and connective tissue of the neck and shoulder, it's a self devaluation. And so that's feeling, loss of self esteem, if your mother is, if you're like confused about, what you did or why she's, disconnected from you, that means that, in some, and it makes perfect sense that you would get some measure of your self esteem from your connection with your mother.

[00:27:28] And so the neck or the shoulder is the relationship, and then the neck has to do with like intellect or injustice, kind of feeling like this isn't fair, or, What could I have done differently? With this relationship in order to not make this happen. So when we devalue ourselves, this is the new orange group.

[00:27:44] There's loss of tissue during the active conflict followed by restoration of the tissue during the healing phase and that's when you get achy and sore. And when you have kind of discomfort that is when the body's going through the healing phase and so that's something also really relevant and important for people to [00:28:00] understand.

[00:28:00] It's typically when you're in the conflict, this is when you are, you're compulsively thinking about it. It's on your mind. You're like, what did I do? How am I going to fix this? What's the resolution? Your brain is just like going, going, going. You'll typically wake up at like three in the morning every night with something on your mind.

[00:28:17] And it's your, your brain kind of waking you up saying, Hey, Resolve this find a solution to this problem. And so you know, those are all indications I'm in a conflict and a person, every human with a body, needs to know when my hands go cold and my mind is racing and my appetite's down, and I'm waking up in the middle of the night,

[00:28:35] I'm in a conflict. I need to find a resolution as swiftly as possible so that I can get out of the adaptation phase and into the healing phase as soon as I can. Because the longer that you're in the adaptation, the longer the, if we're eroding tissue or we're building up tissue, the longer the conflict lasts, the more intense the healing and restoration phase.

[00:28:57] And so, I recently did a presentation [00:29:00] for a really great conference, freedom under natural law. And so I, I illustrated how the seven hermetic principles can be seen in the five biological law. So when you look at the, the law of polarity, we have each swing. So if we swing into conflict for one hour, we have to swing back into healing for one hour.

[00:29:19] If it's 10 days, the healing is going to be much longer. And so that's why, again, we have to bring our awareness to when I'm in a conflict, I want to find a swift resolution so that my body can start that repair mode. So if I dig a hole. For two days, I have to refill it for two days. If I build something up for two days, I have to tear it down for two days.

[00:29:39] And it's when we resolve the conflict is typically when we have the most symptoms. There are a few conflicts where you'll have symptoms during the active conflict. But most of the time it's once you've resolved it. Oh, the sigh of relief. You get the text, you get the phone call, the money comes through, you breathe that sigh of relief, everything's going to be okay.

[00:29:58] You find the solution. [00:30:00] Ooh, that's when things shift. And this is often like people will go on vacation and then they'll get sick or they'll leave vacation and then develop a bunch of symptoms. And so when you get sick, when you develop symptoms, you have to always ask, what did I just resolve?

[00:30:12] What did I chill out about? What was bothering me? That's now, oh, that I breathed a sigh of relief, and now my body is shifting into the healing phase. And when you're in the healing phase, this is when you are fatigued. So again, we have the polarity during the active conflict, your high energy, trying to resolve something, trying to figure something out, fight or flight.

[00:30:31] Sympathetic nervous system is activated. We resolve it and then we shift into parasympathetic. We're fatigued. Oh, I'm so sore and I'm so tired and I can't get out of bed. I'm so sick. This is, your body is in the repair mode. Now it, it has to set back. Whatever happened during the active phase, we have to set it back to normal.

[00:30:50] And so there's swelling, you have a headache because there's swelling in the brain and there's swelling on the organ. So all inflammation, all tenderness, all [00:31:00] pain, all headaches, healing phase. Uh, and then we, halfway through the healing phase, you'll get to the point of like greatest swelling in the organ and on the brain, and then there's a big squeeze.

[00:31:11] You can almost think of this like birth, so the baby, we get to the point of maximum swelling, and then there's a big squeeze. And so the big squeeze, it's almost like you relive the conflict. There's like this moment, this surge of sympathetic dominance to squeeze the fluid out of the area. And so this is where you'll have like a health event, like a sneezing fit or a coughing fit or a seizure, spasms of a heart attack, a stroke, some type of big surge of a, a healing crisis.

[00:31:37] And then, after that, the body falls back into parasympathetic and you go into the scarification phase. And if you successfully complete that, the body has restored back to normal after the resolution of the conflict. And so that's called the law of two phases.

[00:31:54] Nathan Maingard: Now my brain's thinking of all the things that are like injured or sore in my body. And I [00:32:00] just realized that cause my right finger, my four, my pointing finger, my forefinger, I actually hit it with a hammer over, no, it's not a year. You're gonna, but in December, basically, and it's now July and I still can't like bend it completely.

[00:32:14] And now you got me thinking of like, Oh, I wonder what was going on with my mom around that time. Because I feel like that's when things were starting to go a bit sideways again. And so in a way like creating, I'd be curious, anyway, so that you've, I'm not asking you to answer all these things, but you've just given me like a huge invitation to explore the map of my symptoms in a very different way.

[00:32:37] Melissa Sell: and that's the interesting thing. So with the map of the GHK, there are like some exceptions, some times that you can experience symptoms where there's not a DHS. So the DHS is the Dirk Homer syndrome, so that's the conflict shock that affects the brain that leads to adaptations. And those exceptions are injury, poisoning and malnutrition.

[00:32:57] However, I find [00:33:00] that, from a more kind of everything is meaningful, I find that injuries are extremely meaningful, and that they aren't just random, and that the hitting of a finger, the explo like some type of Physical injury is always expressive of something that's being suppressed or something that you're trying to work through and it's like this physical expression. And especially if it happened in December and it's still aching now, there's some type of track related to it.

[00:33:26] So I think there's definitely some things for you to discover with that one.

[00:33:30] Nathan Maingard: Well, so, so this sounds like an incredibly complex system, which I imagine it would need to be. Now, if someone out there is hearing all of this and going, Oh my gosh, like I want to understand this more, how do I, what, what is a step or a place that someone could start out exploring this either themselves at home or, or would you suggest that they speak to someone like yourself or, yeah, just where would they take

[00:33:53] Melissa Sell: I am very passionate about inspiring individuals to learn the map for themselves because [00:34:00] no one's going to be with you in your body If you are in the situation of receiving a diagnosis. And that's the thing is every person, you know has the capacity to understand this to some extent. I understand that not everyone's going to want to learn about the endoderm and the mesoderm and the ectoderm and kind of all those details. But everyone's got to have some Knowledge, some grasp that when I have symptoms in my body, it's because of a shock, it's because of a conflict that was unresolved. Because if you get a diagnosis That in and of itself can be a new shock.

[00:34:32] And so the thing that we associate, with cancer and death rates and it being the worst thing ever, it's because of the fear that we have around our bodies. Even understanding and starting to grasp the fifth biological law. The fifth biological law is the quintessence. And that is that there is nothing, meaningless in nature, and there is nothing malignant in nature. There's nothing evil to fight against. When we think we have to fight against bad genes and bad germs and [00:35:00] bad things, we're in this warlike mentality. But if you look in nature, nature is perfectly harmonious. Everything has a meaning.

[00:35:07] Everything has a purpose. And when you can get into the flow of that meaningfulness, you can start seeing when you have a symptom. It might be uncomfortable, it might be inconvenient, but it is not inappropriate, it is a perfectly calibrated adaptation to something that you experience, and when you can recognize that, and learn from it, and grow from it, and trust that, this is leading me on some type of personal evolutionary journey, To grow. Every conflict holds with it the opportunity for growth and expansion.

[00:35:38] And so, my, I have a YouTube channel where I've made some basic videos and I think that that's a pretty good place for people to start to just like start to wrap their mind around the basics of this. There is also a basics course that I recommend to people that it's 60 different videos. And this is, probably for someone who's a little more interested.

[00:35:57] One of the things, again, is it, can we expect that every single [00:36:00] person is going to learn the entire map? Maybe not necessarily, but everyone should have a person in their family that knows it, so if you're the person listening to this and you're like, ooh, I'm really into health, you need to be the person that learns this map.

[00:36:12] Even if you're combining it with herbalism or homeopathy or whatever, you need this as the basic foundation because this is how stuff works. This is just how nature operates, and so we can't, it, nature actually doesn't care whether you believe in it or not. It just is, it's like, these are natural laws.

[00:36:29] It's the way it functions. And so it's to your benefit to learn the map, to understand, where acne comes from, where does a hemorrhoid come from? Where, where do they, they all have a purpose. And if you can connect those dots and help that family member. They don't have to, maybe they don't have to learn the entire map for themselves, but they at least have someone that they can go to.

[00:36:50] Kind of like a wise person in their community that understands it.

[00:36:54] Nathan Maingard: What's coming up for me is also this question around, I don't know, I'm sure you'll have heard this one, [00:37:00] but like the, the whole germ theory is the, the germ is everything. The other one is the terrain is everything like the germ is everything. Terrain is nothing. And then the other one is terrain is everything.

[00:37:08] Germ is nothing. And, and then somewhere in between as well. And in this case, this definitely sounds much more like terrain around what is the actual, what's happening in the, the fish bowl, not just in the fish. What's happening to the quality of the environment? And the reason that that question is coming up is the question is around something like, say, for example, I sit here and I'm smoking cigarette after cigarette, eating McDonald's and, just like.

[00:37:33] So whatever, not doing any exercise, but I feel completely at peace with everything. I don't, I've, I've resolved all my conflicts. Will I live a long, happy, healthy life or, or is there some kind of an intrinsic problem to treating my body that way? And I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that.

[00:37:48] Melissa Sell: So, uh, smoking doesn't cause cancer and eating McDonald's doesn't cause disease either. Are they the highest quality items to be putting into your body? Well, no. But they do not cause [00:38:00] disease in the way that I used to, I used to think that, bad food, seed oils and denatured, all this bad food cause was full of toxins and that it caused cancer.

[00:38:11] And that's what I taught people that for many years, that was my paradigm. And so I was all about. cleaning up the terrain and you can't, like, I would literally go to my parents house and tell them, this is going to cause cancer and you're going to die early if you keep eating this. Like I was hardcore about it.

[00:38:25] But now I do not believe that at all, because there are people who are happily delighted to have some McDonald's and smoke their cigarette and they do not, they will live long, happy lives. And so it is about so for me it is about intentionality. So if a person can kind of feel really good about whatever they're doing they enjoy their cigarettes They enjoy, you know the convenience of their fast food and they're like living a peaceful happy life, is that how I would choose to live?

[00:38:53] Certainly not. I like to source my food in a way that makes sense on a, on a bigger scale. I like to, do as much [00:39:00] local stuff as I can. And I like the, the animal products that I consume to have, have the best life possible just because that just makes sense to me. But I no longer think that I have to eat this way in order to be healthy.

[00:39:13] And I, I've just loosened up so much around it because I developed all sorts of conflicts when I learned about good food and bad food. When I learned about, so one of my big examples of, uh, GHK and how it totally transformed my life was that I used to deal with acne and it would just drive me crazy.

[00:39:31] I went through every evolution of like, okay, what's acne? Well, it's just genetic, there's nothing you can do about it. Oh, it's bacteria on. skin. And I did all of the, all the different skincare things. And I still would have it. And then I was like, Oh, if I just cut out dairy from my diet and it would help for a little bit.

[00:39:47] And then the acne would come back. And I was like, Oh, if I just get enough gut bacteria and I eat enough sauerkraut, take enough probiotics, I went through every evolution of what I thought was the cause of acne. And I was like, Oh, it's the seed oils. I can't eat out. If I [00:40:00] don't eat out at restaurants and I don't eat bad oils, I'll never get a breakout.

[00:40:04] And I would still get breakouts, and they would happen once I, once I pinpointed, Ah, this is it. I would be okay for a little bit. I'd like not have a breakout, but then they would come back despite having cut the thing out. But when I learned that it has to do with the old orange group, it has a feeling attacked or feeling soiled.

[00:40:22] So feeling soiled is like feeling gross, feeling dirtied. And so when I would eat certain foods, I would feel gross. I would be like, oh, this is gonna cause, I would get worried that the seed oils were going to cause a breakout because I'm traveling and I have to eat out. And so it, and it would happen every single time.

[00:40:37] So my anecdotal evidence is like, well, when I eat this, I get a breakout. So eating this causes a breakout, but I missed the psyche component. I missed how my belief that this food was bad or that these oils were bad. And they're kind of like not the best thing to be putting in my body. It was that. And when I got rid of that idea, I can eat out at a restaurant and it's, and I do not get a breakout because [00:41:00] I removed that belief that this external thing was dirtying to me that was causing the problem.

[00:41:06] And so, I think that there's a beautiful balance of like conscious living, doing what makes sense, eating foods that, you feel aligned with. And I think that that's really the thing that changes. People would come into my world and I'd tell them, teach them to clean up their diet and clean up their products and they would, their symptoms, they'd get better in many regards and it's like, oh, it's because they're less toxic and they're eating cleaner foods.

[00:41:29] No, it's because they're making conscious, intentional choices. It's an act of self value, for example. So I would think that a person had fewer aches and pains because they're eating fewer inflammatory foods, but the act of eating good foods and sourcing in a conscious way, That was an act of self value.

[00:41:47] And so what is that? A resolution of a self devaluation conflict, so they're feeling better about the choices that they're making. Because, when you go to eat something, it's not simply just physical stuff going in your body. There's a whole psycho emotional [00:42:00] experience to every product, everything that you're doing in your life and in your experience.

[00:42:05] And so that's the unseen thing that people aren't paying attention to when it comes to, no, it's the food. No, it's the toxins. It's like, no, it's the psyche. It's the soul. It's your spirit that is engaging with physical reality in a certain way. Because even in the terrain world, they've kind of swapped out germs for toxins and they call, they say everything's a detox process.

[00:42:27] And I absolutely think that that is a, it's maybe a necessary step on the journey. But if you stop there, you're stuck in tox, I was stuck in toxin land for a long time. But I know the answers do not end there that you've got to go further into the psyche, into the soul.

[00:42:43] Nathan Maingard: Yeah, there's a piece here. I feel some, I really resonate with what you're saying. And I also feel some pushback around, like, for example, using the McDonald's as an example, where by definition, McDonald's is a harmful food because it's causing harm in the world. Like there's the way that that [00:43:00] food is produced, the way it's transported, those animals, like the entire, the, the, the entire load, the, the responsibility of eating one of those burgers.

[00:43:10] Is in a way, and I'm not judging. If someone eats McDonald's, I actually, I really don't have a, it's not like I sit around going, Oh, McDonald's eaters. Like I don't care, but as an example, and so I'm wondering when you say, because there is something there, why would it be that someone is taking better care of themselves and so they're resolving the conflict of lack of self care by eating better food, if it.

[00:43:28] Doesn't matter. They could just eat McDonald's more consciously. And that would be, they'd be fine. They could do that for the rest of their lives and everything would be okay. So I feel like there's a piece in there where, and maybe this is because as you said, biologic, like life has logic and life says I made it perfectly.

[00:43:44] And McDonald's is really doesn't fit the cycle of life. And so intrinsically it has repercussions. to choose to do something like that is over time, will have repercussions. I'm just working it out as I'm reflecting, because I'm finding it so interesting what you're saying. I don't know. What do you think [00:44:00] about that?

[00:44:00] Melissa Sell: Well, totally. And that's the thing is I, once a person is conscious. So I think about a person eating like McDonald's, someone who grew up in the fifties and was like, Oh, McDonald's, this is so fun. This is so, you know what I mean? Back when it was actually kind of wholesome, so a person like that who still kind of goes and gets.

[00:44:17] Gets their burger and feels like, as a little hearkening back to this whole old time when maybe it was more wholesome. And they don't know about the factory farming and they don't know about all They're kind of blissfully ignorant to that. But a person who's conscious is never gonna choose to eat at McDonald's.

[00:44:32] A person who is aware of the whole greater context, but someone who's kind of blissfully ignorant and likes their little pleasures of a cigarette and a, and a Fast food burger again, their level of consciousness, though, they're not conscious of the if they were conscious of the impact and then choosing to eat it anyways, that is self harming that isn't an act of self value, so yes, intrinsically, there would be some misalignment there.

[00:44:56] But I do think that it is possible in kind of a blissfully ignorant [00:45:00] way to, to engage with certain foods and products and not have a certain negative impact, cosmically, energetically, does that food just intrinsically have a negative impact? For me,

[00:45:12] I, I determine the impact of what I consume. I set the tone, I set the vibe. If I allow something to come into me, and to take me over, and I say, you have more power than I do, I've given my power away to a food, to a toxin, to an external substance, and that's just not what I do in my personal philosophy. It, I determine how it affects me.

[00:45:33] Because that puts the power back into me, which is consciousness, which I think is just the root of everything, is that consciousness overrides material. And that's why any system that looks to the material as the causative agent, No, like I do not put toxins as the causative agent. It's me. It has to, it has to encounter me, whatever toxin and that's where, oh gosh, but there's things I can't control about the water or the air and the chemtrails.

[00:45:59] [00:46:00] So that puts you in that position where you think this external substance is greater than your own consciousness, your own beingness, and I find that to be fundamentally disempowering.

[00:46:10] Nathan Maingard: That is such an interesting and challenging perspective in a way. There's a part of me that wants to like poke the bear further where I'm like, well, if I drink a cup of arsenic and I have a really positive attitude, I'm not sure that my personal biology, no matter how good I think, think about it is going to handle that.

[00:46:28] Like, and I, I mean, is there a point where the biology like that's, cause I guess, I suppose you said it's both the mind that the psychology, the psycho element, but there's also the psycho element, but the part that is that like mental piece of the belief system around it, what happened, but there is also the physical element of like, if I.

[00:46:47] Drink a cup of arsenic. The shock is going to be. No, I wouldn't,

[00:46:52] Melissa Sell: Well, exactly, exactly, so that's the thing is when people try to push with those hypotheticals, it's like everything I encounter, [00:47:00] I have attracted, you know what I mean? And like, why would I ever find myself in a position of drinking a cup of arsenic to prove to people that poisoned, and it's like, no, I just wouldn't do that.

[00:47:08] That doesn't make any sense.

[00:47:10] Nathan Maingard: Yeah, fair point. Yeah. I'm curious. I mean, I, I, I want to like a hundred percent, I feel the value in this and I, I'm always where I have a tendency to be enthusiastic and just dive full in into the latest thing that I'm excited about. So. So I'm curious around, so say someone comes to you, so for myself, I'm starting out here, like I've got, I'm excited.

[00:47:29] This sounds amazing. I want to learn more. And then I've got all these symptoms. It feels a bit overwhelming. It's like, there's all these different things that some of them I've had for years, some of them for short times, et cetera, et cetera. Is there a, is there like a, a sane way to start something like this without becoming immediately overwhelmed?

[00:47:47] Melissa Sell: Curiosity. Just get curious. You don't have to swallow it all and say, oh, this is the only way that it, because you're, you're coming from a lot of different, all of your beliefs, all of the things that you were raised in, all the things that you've learned, all the alternative health ideas.[00:48:00]

[00:48:00] It's like. Just be curious. It's like, okay, GNM says, GHK says that there's a connection between, this wart and my feeling of disconnection from my mother. Interesting. They say that there's a connection between, my thoughts of self worth and self value and, these aches and pains I have.

[00:48:16] Isn't that interesting? Now, can I just observe throughout the day? Things that kind of ring that bell, step on that track. Ooh, I see someone hanging out with their mother, and I don't know, say, just bring something up for me, and I feel a little bit like, oh, it'd be cool if my mom and I were on good terms right now.

[00:48:33] Ooh, could that be a little bit of a track? Could that be a little bit of something that's causing me to reactivate, reignite that feeling of separation, that feeling of self devaluation? And so you just start with curious, self observation. You know without being too serious and intense about it.

[00:48:49] Just take it lightly, journal pay attention Oh, you know this my wart got really itchy today. Okay, so itching, itching is a sign of healing. So what you know, did I work through something? [00:49:00] Did I change my perspective? Did I get some feedback from my mother that was like caused me to chill out a little bit?

[00:49:04] it's like you just kind of take it and this is where you know, the way that I Engage with the work and prior to even finding this body of knowledge in 2017, I was already on this path of awareness of like Paying attention to what's going on behind my scenes, paying attention to how I react to my world.

[00:49:23] My partner and I teach a class called Awareness School, which is really all about that. It's about learning how to slow down and just observe how do I tend to engage with what happens, with the thoughts that fly through my mind, with the stuff I see on social media, with the things that people around me are saying or doing.

[00:49:40] How am I reacting? What's my narrative that's going on behind the scenes? How does my body react to it when, and so yes, can it be a little overwhelming if you are approaching it in an unconscious way because unconscious patterns like to bombard you and say, Oh, you can never figure all of this out, Nathan.

[00:49:57] It's just too much. You've got too many symptoms and this is too [00:50:00] complicated. And what about this? And you're not really sure about that. Maybe she's wrong about that. And so like the work is to notice that whole big thought bubble. Of like overwhelmed thoughts and saying, isn't that interesting?

[00:50:10] Here's a really fascinating new body of knowledge that has a lot of potential to, to help me with things that I've been dealing with chronically. And my mind is by default, choosing to freak me out about it. Overwhelm me, make me kind of panic and say, Oh, this is just too much. And, and I, and it makes me less wanting to engage with it less.

[00:50:32] How interesting that I have a part of my mind that's doing that. And if you can draw your awareness to that with curiosity, without judgment, you'll start to see maybe there's another way I could engage with this. Maybe there's, small steps that I could take just to, let's maybe just work on the wart then, if everything else seems too overwhelming.

[00:50:49] It's like, let's just look at that. Let's just see, how does this theme come up in my day?

[00:50:53] Nathan Maingard: I appreciate this very much. I appreciate your enthusiasm. I really like how, uh, animated you are about [00:51:00] the things that you care about. That, that means a lot to me. Uh, it's often how I feel about the things I'm excited about and not everyone gets as animated as you. And, uh, so thank you for bringing your fullness to it.

[00:51:12] Another question, just like a random one. Well, maybe random, but, uh, Louise Hay and her book, You Can Heal Your Life, I think it was called. Are there any crossovers there, or is it a completely, I know it is a completely different system, but is there any correlation between the two at any point?

[00:51:29] Melissa Sell: Yeah, so, uh, she's got a map again, like, oh, the liver and this symptom or the shoulder means this. And I think that there's definitely things that you can extract and glean and little insights that maybe will help you from that material. It's just that those systems, pretty much every other system, Isn't as specific and biologically rooted.

[00:51:50] So homer's system, he had a like a german precision mind that he took to all of this and so he you know, very specific categorizations based on [00:52:00] the the embryologic function of that tissue, the purpose that it serves. And so You know, I consider, obviously, his work the gold standard of, always look at that first, but then if you're like, hmm, that doesn't totally fit, there's lots of different schools of thought where you can read a line or a word and you're like, oh, it's that.

[00:52:19] So it's like a nuance. So that's the thing is I find that Other mind body systems have really helpful descriptions that may, ooh, hit the nail on the head for an individual. But as far as, like, the map that describes the function of this tissue, always refer to Homer. But if, like, something, again, isn't totally, like, a territorial anger conflict or a territorial marking conflict, if that word, if those words aren't, like, really getting at it for you, reference Louise Hay, look at some other things. See if there there's a word in there, or a flavor of experience that you can extract from that material that gives you, a little bit more that, that just rings true to you. And so I find I, I draw from [00:53:00] a ton of different sources, but it's all based fundamentally in the biological laws.

[00:53:05] Nathan Maingard: love how you started quite early on when you were speaking around, you made the distinction of biological biologic. That's really good. That's going to stay with me. I think that's one of my takeaways from this conversation is like, Oh. Biologic, that, that's makes a lot of sense to me.

[00:53:22] Melissa Sell: No, I love that too. I you know the because you see that there is a biologic to everything so cancer is Biological it makes sense for the body to to create this adaptation. It's meaningful for your survival. I recently did a workshop at a women's festival And I talked about, the biologic of the sexes and the, like, how the male functions, how the female functions, how they, uh, their perception is different, how they're wired differently because their roles are different.

[00:53:51] And in the modern world, the, biologic of male and female has been inverted. So we've got a lot of very masculine women and a lot of very [00:54:00] feminine men and how that doesn't work. It doesn't work to, it's, it's against our biologic, it's against our nature. And so that's why people are more unhappy, have more troubles with fertility and why, like the family isn't thriving when it follows the laws of nature.

[00:54:16] And so that's another, Dr. Homer describes exactly precisely how the brain changes when a female, when a right handed woman has a sexual conflict, she becomes masculine. When a right handed man has a territorial conflict, he becomes feminine and how. How these things happen, how they persist in our culture, how the whole range of, sexuality can be explained.

[00:54:38] All the weird stuff that people are into, all of the, it's all because of, when we have double conflicts on both sides of the brain in a specific territorial region of the brain, it, it describes, autism, hypersexuality, uh, violent behavior, aggressive behavior, autistic behavior, all of it can be described by these paired conflicts on opposite sides of the brain.[00:55:00]

[00:55:00] So that's like, it's, it's just incredible what he discovered and the depth and expanse of, of, of, yeah, of his discovery, it is hands down the greatest discovery of all time.

[00:55:12] Nathan Maingard: Wow. And if so, for example, with autism, I know there's a lot of conversation with that now, which is exciting to me. It's the first time in my life that I've seen the conversation around vaccines and autism and all these connections becoming a big conversation where I think, I forget his name, but the guy who's running for president, who's, who's kind of bringing the stuff into more consciousness out there in the world and having serious conversations about it. I'd be curious from your perspective, how do you think, so for example, a baby who was exhibiting as a completely normal baby and then goes for their, whatever the latest thing is that they're supposed to get injected with, and then suddenly is now displaying autism.

[00:55:51] Would you say that that's something that a That, that you could actually help someone with like severe autism. And actually there's, there are ways to undo that because it's not about the [00:56:00] toxins, it's about the shock and about the response, et cetera.

[00:56:04] Melissa Sell: Yeah, so that's the thing that was always really baffling to me because again, for years, I was in the camp of like, the vaccines are poison, they are one to one, this causes autism. But then there would be, there's tons of kids that are vaccinated that don't exhibit autism. And there's a handful of people that I have, I know personally, and that like, their kids weren't vaccinated, and they developed autism. And that for me was just like the biggest like, whoa, okay, it, it, I was really confused. But now understanding that the expression of autism is a combination of a scare fright conflict and a territorial anger conflict. So when a child has both of these conflicts activated, they withdraw.

[00:56:48] They don't make eye contact anymore. They kind of withdraw into their own world. And it's because they were bombarded with too much conflict and it changed their brain. It changed their behavioral expression. [00:57:00] Now, the extent to which, you know, again, so a baby, a baby, its whole world is its mother, its mother and being safe and close and smelling her and being near to her, like all the time is what's normal.

[00:57:11] That's biological, is for a baby to never leave its mother's side until it can start walking on its own and then it still needs its mother, until about, three years old when it can start to develop a little bit more independence. But for the first two to three years of life, mothers and babies should be like this.

[00:57:28] They should be, basically always in the same place. Now, when we take a baby away from its mother, right after birth during, even during the, the birth process, the fear, the isolation, when you have a lot of monitors on the womb, even something like an ultrasound can disconnect a baby from its mother because the baby can no longer hear the mother's heartbeat.

[00:57:47] And so all of the interventions that we do separate us from nature. And cause potential conflicts in the baby. So, uh, territorial anger, that can happen immediately. So babies that[00:58:00] post birth exhibit jaundice, it's because they had a territorial anger. Maybe they were pulled too hard when they were using forceps or pushing on the mom's belly to get the baby out faster.

[00:58:10] Or a C section to, pull on. All of these things can cause a baby to have a territorial anger conflict. And then, so they, let's say they have that conflict and then a few weeks a month in for four weeks old, you take the baby in and they're held down. They're put away from the mother, held down and given an injection, scare, fright conflict, so boom, boom, there are those two conflicts.

[00:58:30] And now if that child had those two conflicts, they're going to exhibit those, the behavioral change of autism. Now the resolution, the baby, a conflict is resolved when it can't happen again. And it's very sad because in many cases we lose this fundamental trust of the world. It's like, okay, the, the people that were supposed to protect me and keep me safe have kind of thrown me to the wolves.

[00:58:53] Thrown me into this system that, and, and parents are well meaning and I don't blame parents at all. And parents [00:59:00] should not blame themselves, because that becomes a self devaluation for them. Again, we have to hold this just with interest and curiosity and yes, there's going to be that temptation to guilt and oh my God, what I would have done differently if I would have known.

[00:59:12] But you know, you're on a perfect journey of evolution. Your child's on their perfect journey. You all came into this experience to have challenges and obstacles like the ones you're experiencing. So living in regret and guilt is not useful. It's not helpful. We just want to take in knowledge, add that to our bank and live differently moving forward.

[00:59:31] So to help a child to establish safety and okayness in the wake of, having these traumatic shocks, that's really what it is. It's like, how safe can I help this child to feel? How secure, how can I help to rebuild their trust in me that I'm not going to. Give them to someone with cold hands and put them under these lights and have things jabbed into their body.

[00:59:51] Again, that's just a very primal fear. I know that I have medical trauma from early age because I, I pass out. If I, if I, I can't have a blood draw [01:00:00] because I will, I will faint. I, I've had I, I feel, I can't even have my blood pressure taken. I don't like being squeezed. I don't like being pressed on.

[01:00:07] And I was like, I know that this has to do with some type of early childhood medical exam or shots or something that completely turned me off. Like, why do I hate hospitals? Why? It's like a primal thing that I hate. And I think that I was traumatized as a child in that environment with those lights, with that, that smell, that vibe.

[01:00:26] And so. Yeah, I would say you have to help restore the trust and that means constant contact with mother, no separation, the, the reliability of knowing that you're always going to be there, and so that changes a lot of, stupid parenting strategies that are, were written about by men who didn't know anything about babies, about, Sleep training and separating the mother, all of these things, the things that we do to make life more convenient. We've got baby, mechanical rockers that rock the baby and things that hold the bottle in their mouth.

[01:00:55] And it's like, that's not biological. That doesn't make any sense, and [01:01:00] you having freedom to go do things, that's setting your child up for like a lifelong kind of deep, undefinable insecurity about life itself.

[01:01:09] Nathan Maingard: what I am really enjoying about this conversation and what I'm hearing from you is that it makes sense to me because life doesn't feel like a mistake. It doesn't feel like an accident. And so there's a beautiful terminology around this, this book, which maybe you've heard of, it's, uh, the 15 agreements of conscious leadership, I think.

[01:01:30] Something like that anyway, but, uh, but I haven't actually read the whole book. I've read part of it cause I have a thousand books around that I want to read. And I started so many of them, but in the intro of this one, they talk about the kind of four, these four stages of consciousness. And the first of those is.

[01:01:45] The one that is the only one that's actually unconscious, which is 'to me'. So why is this always happening to me? Everything happens to me. It's the state of the victim, the state of the one who can't, everything just feels like it's just out of control. It just happens. I've got nothing to do with it.

[01:01:59] Then the [01:02:00] second one, which they say, and again, the last three are all levels or layers of consciousness. The second one is, is 'by me', which they said most leaders and business owners are in the 'by me', where it happens. I'm the one who makes it happen. I make life happen, but that's a lot of effort. It's always pushing.

[01:02:16] It's driving. It's like, I've got to get this done. This has got to happen. And the third is 'through me'. So, which is like, if I can really allow the flow of life, it happens through me. So there's a lot less effort. There's a lot more enjoyment of just flowing through the states of life. And the final one is 'as me', which is that I am it all happening to myself. There's nothing I can win or lose or find or, or do or not do, or there's, there's no way to go either. It's all me happening. So just fully being present in the oneness of all. And I found that really amazing. And it ties into what you've been saying to me, which is moving into that realization that this isn't happening to me.

[01:02:56] It's not like I am at the mercy of some [01:03:00] strange, unpredictable and inexplicable experience. It's like, no, I am this experience happening to myself. Of course, I'm a reflection of my environment, of my thoughts, of, of what's happened in my life, of the things that, that I am integrated into. And so there should be a way to map that.

[01:03:18] So anyway, I find that interesting.

[01:03:20] Melissa Sell: It is interesting.

[01:03:23] Nathan Maingard: Well, so speak, you mentioned the word freedom a moment ago, so I'd love to know from you when you hear the words we are already free, what does that mean for you or bring up for you?

[01:03:34] Melissa Sell: Yeah, it brings up the, the principle of all is mind, the everything is solidified consciousness. And that consciousness really is everything and consciousness is playing with itself and comes into the physical realm to abide by certain laws of this game of physical reality for fun.

[01:03:52] But ultimately, consciousness is ultimate freedom. Consciousness is, that which can, your imagination is, is freedom. We are [01:04:00] already free because we can imagine an outcome. We can imagine different things. Everything is imagined before it's real. And so that's why working with your consciousness is working actively with your imagination to see, and this is when it comes to conflict resolution.

[01:04:14] It's like, you just have to access your bank of limitless creativity. There's a way, do you think that your problem, your, symptom, your issue with your mother, your issue with money, your issue with whatever, do you think that's too big for limitless consciousness and limitless imagination to solve this?

[01:04:30] Of course not. And so when you link up with limitless imagination, limitless creativity, and you start imagining, you know, creative way out of whatever you find yourself seemingly stuck in. Seemingly. It's always seemingly. It always seems like that in this moment, for this moment. But, we always have Experiences of, oh, in retrospect, oh, if I only would have known this is where this was leading and everything's always kind of unfolding in this perfect way. And we feel stuck for a while for the joy of getting free, and so that's [01:05:00] the, the beauty of the play of this game is like you're free all the time, you know, and, and, but we play stuck because playing stuck is fun.

[01:05:07] If you just had ultimate limitless freedom all the time and there was never any challenge, you would get bored. And so realizing that the challenges that I currently find myself kind of tangled up in and the problems and the things I want to overcome that ultimately biggest picture it's for fun. It's for fun.

[01:05:23] It's for play. You are already free. You're always free. You couldn't not be free. But you're so free that you can imagine bondage. You can create an experience, perceive an experience of stuckness, but you do it for fun of getting out of it. Or you stay stuck in it and you believe in it and you're so devoted to your victimhood and you hate it and it's horrible, but that's also a version of playing the game.

[01:05:46] Sometimes you want to be the victim for your whole entire, 80 years of physical life. And that's fine because you're gonna, you're gonna reboot at the end and come into a different experience. And so that's that's kind of when I hear we are already free. [01:06:00] That's like the basic fundamental of my personal philosophy of life.

[01:06:04] So I love it.

[01:06:07] Nathan Maingard: And if someone listening now is wanting to find you and your projects, whatever you wanting to share, whatever you'd like people to take away from this to connect with you further, what would you share?

[01:06:17] Melissa Sell: Yeah, like I said, check out my YouTube channel if you're kind of wanting to just Bite off some chunks of understanding how this map of biology works. I teach a class every Monday called the Language of Adaptation, uh, which, we, I, I teach about a different biological program. People come with questions.

[01:06:33] We talk about, how to apply this to your life. And so that's a really great way to make it more, uh, digestible. If you're, especially if you're having trouble with the materials that exist, if you're like, ah, I can't wrap my mind around this, come to the class. I'll make it, you can ask the most basic questions.

[01:06:48] I don't care. I'll repeat it a million times just to help you to wrap your mind around it. I think by the time that this, uh, goes out, I think we'll already have started awareness school, but that's something we do four times a year, which is like a [01:07:00] huge, 10 module, 10 weeks of like group coaching to build a new framework for how you experience reality and how you create your perception.

[01:07:08] But I've got a lot of different courses that you can check out on drmelissasell. com connect with me, Instagram, whatever. But yeah, I just, you, this, you found this, you listened to this for a reason, like when this gets sprinkled into your consciousness, this GNM, I came across it randomly on a podcast and it was like, it wasn't even about, the person just mentioned it and moved on with whatever the subject they were talking about.

[01:07:28] And so, I feel like this finds you at the right time. And so it's just a little breadcrumb to, to get, to this place of complete conscious engagement with your experience, knowing that your symptoms are meaningful, that there's nothing evil in your body. Your body never works against you.

[01:07:44] There is no autoimmune. There isn't something that's going, that's attacking you. That if you kind of get still and pay attention and connect some dots, you'll see how this is for you, that it is, that there is something here for you to learn through, to grow through, to experience.

[01:07:59] Nathan Maingard: What [01:08:00] a beautiful message to end on, Melissa. It's been an absolute honor, from the depths of myself, this has been a beautiful, enlightening interaction for me, and I'm sure that for anyone listening, they are walking away, feeling charged, energized, and empowered.

[01:08:14] So thank you so much for everything you're doing. Really appreciate you.

[01:08:18] Melissa Sell: Thanks for having me.

[01:08:19] Nathan Maingard: Thank you again to Dr. Melissa Sell for joining us on the we are already free podcast. I will be thinking about and taking action on this one for a long time to come. Find all of Melissa's links in the show notes at alreadyfree.Me or directly on your podcast app.

[01:08:36] Please remember to share this episode with anyone who will benefit from taking the power back for their own health and taking that power back into their own hands.

[01:08:45] If today's conversation with Dr. Melissa Sell has made you pause and think about how much you're truly listening to your body and its deep wisdom, especially first thing in the morning, then I have got something special for you. The challenge of breaking free of [01:09:00] mindless mornings can leave you feeling out of touch, not just with the day ahead, but with your own body's needs and signals.

[01:09:07] Imagine starting each day in a way that nurtures a deeper connection with your own body setting the tone for conscious living and inner harmony. I'm excited to share my free five day morning practice challenge with you. This isn't just about building any morning routine. It's about creating a space to tune into your body's language, to align your start with your inner rhythm and wisdom. Whether you're well-versed in morning practices or haven't yet found one that really resonates with you, this challenge is tailored to your unique needs and time constraints Also, if you want to see me with super long hair. At the time that I recorded it, I had really long hair and you'll see that. But for real, by the end of these five days, you'll have a personalized, impactful, and simple morning practice.

[01:09:51] It's a journey of self discovery, of empowerment and deep listening that only takes a few minutes each day, but has the potential to transform your entire approach [01:10:00] to health, to wellbeing. So if you're ready to embrace a morning that aligns with the profound insights that we've discussed today. Join me on this transformative journey on this transformative challenge. Visit already

[01:10:13] Or check your show notes to begin this journey of morning attunement. I'll see you next week. And as always, please remember, we are already free.


  1. Maria Smith

    the email link does not work. What is your Email address Dr. Sell. Also the comment section on the website does not allow me to add the message?

    • Nathan Maingard

      Hi, Maria. Thanks for reaching out. I hope you found value in the episode. You can find links to Dr Sell in the shownotes above, and her email will be at her website. Wishing you all the best, let me know if you have any other questions


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